The political class demands complete immunity for war crimes

[solarbird]

It's been quite the weekend for torture supporters and their apologists. Rahm Emanuel, Mr. Obama's Chief of Staff, states on ABC's "This Week" that Mr. Obama supports immunity for all levels of US war criminals involved in torture and other war crimes - implementers, those who established the policy, those who wrote bad-faith legal opinions to try to justify the crimes. Fox News has started a campaign to lie about the torture regime, declaring it "not torture" (law, precedent, previous US prosecutions be damned) and in general a good thing. So does Bill Krystal. George Will spent the weekend saying that the only problem with the memos is that they were released, and prominent Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan talks about her strong support for keeping everything covered up. (Just in case you need another example of everything wrong with the American press. Also, Glenn Greenwald has another good example of how the political press serves as a willing and enthusiastic propaganda arm of the political class.) Obama senior advisor David Axelrod continues boosting the "move past it, it's over" theme. Finally, Christopher Buckley is a member of the 'it's just "harsh interrogation"' club in his call for immunity as well, also asserting that torture prevented "another 9/11," calling opposition to the use of Nazi and Stalinist techniques designed to elicit false confessions "sanctimony."

And I remind everyone yet again that the point of torture is not to get the truth, but to get the victim to say whatever you want them to say so that the torture will stop. It's not about truth; it's at best orthogonal to the truth. And were this any other actor, all of the people above would be demanding heads on pikes; we know this because they do, and have, made exactly those kinds of demands for exactly these kinds of acts - when other people do them. The contemptible degeneracy of the political class could not be more plain.

Meanwhile, people who actually know about these things, such as torture-resistance trainers for the military, want prosecutions. Manfred Nowak, torture investigator for the United Nations, wants investigations, and notes (correctly, as far as I can tell) that refusal to investigate and prosecute violates US treaty law - not that anyone in the political class cares about that.

The longer Mr. Obama refuses to act, the more complicity he gains in the torture regime. The longer his supporters tolerate that, the more they do as well.

eta: The EFF has a fundraising campaign against Mr. Obama's continuation and extension of Mr. Bush's domestic spying and wiretapping regime and immunity-thorugh-secrecy claims here.

Comments

[westrider.livejournal.com]

Joy. Just how I wanted to start my week...

[llachglin.livejournal.com]

This is depressing. It's now clear that Obama is not going to act on this and there's no changing his mind. I'm still a supporter of the president on a host of other issues, but there is literally nothing I can do to help turn him around on basic civil liberties and rule of law.

With the administration and the DOJ in particular refusing to follow the law, our next hope is that somehow Congress can get an investigation going. I'm not optimistic, but it does seem to be the apparent next step.

[angharads-house.livejournal.com]

Well, I am disgusted to hear this, but not greatly surprised, as it squares with what is heard backchannel.

Still wonder whether some fine day I'll be standing witness in The Hague over this whole mess? Already cost me my pension to stand up for the moral compass, on the matter of the abrogation of Geneva. Which, I might add, is still abrogated, and seems to have very much become a non-issue in the media and pundit classes.

My guess is that somebody has already explained the boundaries (as set by the political classes) to POTUS, and made it very clear to him what the consquences could be if he steps outside that set of boundaries.

My second, darker, guess is that he's the predictably corrupt product of an ongoing corrupt system.

And we, here, still have that inchoate lunatic Sun King of ours, the Rt Hon Mr Stephen Harper. So matters are not a great deal better here, just a little less exposed in the press.

[phillipalden.livejournal.com]

I want prosecutions of the people involved in torture.

I also want prosecutions of the people involved in destroying our economy. They are easy to spot with the federal government throwing money at them.

While we're at it, prosecutions of those who have destroyed our environment would not be unwelcome.

But what are the chances that any of these evil people will ever face justice?

[brombear.livejournal.com]

I'm not surprised, but I have to wonder just how deep the prosecution would go if they were go go after those responsible. As a hypothetical, could the leading members of Congress get accused of being accessories as they refused to bring impeachment hearings against Bush, since it could have possibly served their best interest?

[whip-lash.livejournal.com]

And I remind everyone yet again that the point of torture is not to get the truth, but to get the victim to say whatever you want them to say so that the torture will stop.

Never understood this particular argument. There seem to be two memes on torture, often used by the same people: torture never works, and torture always works, i.e., everybody breaks.

I think the latter is true. However, truth is whether it works is not germane to its legality and (under most moral systems) probably not germane to its morality.

[solarbird]

They're the same argument. "Torture doesn't work" means "torture doesn't work as a truth machine." Torture doesn't get you "the truth," or, if it does, it will get it embedded in a flood of whatever the torturer wants to hear, true or not.

The problem with allowing any government to have access to this, particularly when combined with arbitrary arrest and imprisonment without charge or trial (as also claimed and executed by the Bush administration) should be obvious.

In which the President comes to his senses...

[mundivagant.livejournal.com]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30325495/

:D