Dear Lazyweb

[solarbird]

Hey, Lazyweb! What do I need to know about cheap midi keyboards? (As in, midi keyboards to be used with a digital audio workstation, not home keyboards that happen to have midi in/out pairs.) I am strongly considering one for studio work because I can't afford, you know, an orchestra. I'm seeing things like Miditech used for <$100, is this any good?

eta: to clarify, I don't know anything about these, other than they exist. So what I need to know really starts with the list of things I need to know. ^_^

eta2: I think I want semi-weighted keys. I have a piano background and don't like standard low-end synth/keyboard keys. But am I wrong?

Comments

[emrecom.livejournal.com]

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=USBkeyboardcontrollers

[solarbird]

So this is like a general brand endorsement for M-Audio midi keyboards I guess? Do these survive well used? Because I see some on Craigslist. (I'm planning on buying used b/c cheaper. ^_^ )

[emrecom.livejournal.com]

They're super popular. The last one I bought--this was for a friend/with a friend--was a Korg model, stripped in every feature but IN/OUT and through.

Unless the action of keyboard is a big deal, like, wanting truly piano-like action, all these keyboards are probably kinda interchangable.

I liked that Korg and an M-Audio I was messing around with, but I seriously doubt either will crap out on you.

But--they do have different action, and you may want to play before you buy to see which action you prefer.

[emrecom.livejournal.com]

Yeah--and whether you want aftertouch, how many octaves, etc might be an issue.

Me, I just need to input note values so simple is fine.

[solarbird]

In my chibi experience with narrow keyboards, I have immediately found two-octave to be intensely frustrating. But I think three would be an okay minimum. I don't need 88 keys, but I do want at least three octaves.

I'd like weighted keys (I dislike the standard bouncy lightweight low-end keyboard keys that you find on the usual, say, "250 voices!" home unit at Costco) but I think I'd trade that for aftertouch. I have a fairly strong feeling I'm going to want that eventually and if by some freakish opportunity I can get one for my budget now, then I'd take that opportunity.

[loopback.livejournal.com]

the king hell audio nerd at work has one of the Oxygen midi keyboards (the Oxygen8, I think) at his desk, for whatever that's worth.

[meesto.livejournal.com]

How many octaves do you need? Do you want aftertouch (additional midi control that comes from varying pressure on the key after you strike it)? Full-size keys?

BH Photo - M-Audio Key-Rig-49 Midi Controller (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/480463-REG/M_Audio_9900_52239_10_KeyRig_49_MIDI_Controller.html)

Very basic controller. I don't think it has after-touch, but it is velocity sensitive (meaning the faster you hit the keys should tell your midi recording software to make the notes louder). It supports USB and has a sustain pedal input so you can add one if you want.

I use a 61-key keyboard and there are times I wish I could play have access to all 88 keys on a proper piano keyboard, but those times are rare. The octave switching button does what I need it to and this keyboard offers this as well.

The keys look full-sized and for $99 it fits your criteria.

[meesto.livejournal.com]

Semi-weighted or weighted keys would be a nice addition, but those will cost more (makes the keys feel like piano keys when you play them).

[solarbird]

I think I want that. (Weighted keys.) Is there a reason specifically not to want that? (I have an extensive piano background. Most of which I don't remember. Long story. But I think it's still in there somewhere.)

AfterTouch I think I would definitely like BUT! is so far out of my price range it's just stupid. ^_^

[solarbird]

Yay! Feature explanations! ^_^

What other things do I need to know about? I don't know what I'm deciding between even. I see feature lists and I'm all "what" - except things like full-size and number of octaves. I know what that means from piano. ^_^

I was planning on buying something used to save money - what kind of fail/abuse should I be looking out for? And is that a bad idea in general?

[meesto.livejournal.com]

I think you can do very well with used gear - as long as the manufacturer is either still in business or there is an easy way to get it fixed should there be an issue.

The person who bought my used midi controller a couple years ago did very well with the deal - it was in great condition. Ask if it was used on stage, outside or if the owner smokes. Dirt, dust, smoke and to a lesser extent - surface moisture are things to be aware of.

Some cheaper keyboards have keys that make a little noise when they are presesd. You can pay a fair bit to replicate the 'feel' of piano action.

Semi-weighted keys fell, in my opinion (and I am not a trained piano player) heaps nicer than no-weighting at all. I think I would care about full-weighted if I were a pianist and looking for a 'piano' that was the size of a full set of keys.

Local e-bay sales might be a good place to start looking. Some musical instrument shops will sell used gear too (thinking of Daddy's Junky Music), but they get a good premium on those sales so it won't be as good for you. Store demo units with full warranties are a favourite purchase item of mine - generally they have not had the wear that used gear would have and it has a warranty.

I think the issues you can address with who made it and can you get it fixed/replaced will be the biggest issues. A noisy key that goes "thock-boing" when pressed, but otherwise still works along with the others is a hazard of any keyboard and best remedied by playing all the keys to see what they do. Untried is more of a risk and you need to be certain you can get it fixed/adjusted if you can't try it out first.

Funky power connections and data ports are the other potential weak area - but again - if there is a repair shop you won't have much to worry about.

I sent my Alesis QS6.1 (a decent, now vintage, synth off to the local repair place in NZ to get the power supply converted to 220v and it was not too expensive or a pain - I brought it to the local music gear shop and they sent it off to the local authorized repair shop).

A $99 keyboard will be an item that you replace - more likely. A $400 controller that someone is selling for $275 and you get for $250 because they need the cash will likely be able to be repaired (but do a little homework on the brand/model).

[meesto.livejournal.com]

Sweetwater.com has a nice buyers guide to review - and they do a good job explaining features:
http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/keyboard-controllers/buying-guide.php

They also will sell you gear too. Brands that would seem to fit your criteria are CME (their M-Key controller), or M-Audio (Key-Rig or Oxygen).

Sliders and knobs on a controller can be mapped to control elements of your recording software so don't completely discount those features.

[meesto.livejournal.com]

You should do some window shopping and go and let your fingers tell you about what the keys feel like. See what expensive ones are like as well as cheap ones. I am pretty certain you can make do with whatever you end up with, but trying them is educational and may be surprising.

[maellenkleth]

weighted keys are really essential here, but we come at this from a mechanical-keyboard background and that might not be so important to you.

I'll ask around tomorrow; today I am too out of it to want to leave the house. :(

/Elane/

[alinsa.livejournal.com]

Pretty much echoing what other people say. Your choices are pretty much... do you want full sized keys? Weighted? Velocity sensitive? Aftertouch? How many octaves do you need? Control surfaces (sliders and dials and other such fun)? Linux compatability?

Most controllers these days are designed primarilly to be used via midi-over-USB (and require a driver to work), though most also have a traditional MIDI output as well if you want to do things the old fashioned way. Most require the USB for any sort of programability, though, I think.

I have a Korg Kontrol49 that I'm pretty fond of, though at ~$300 (new) it's out of your desired price range by a good bit. It was, though, the cheapest I could find that had a good number of the right kind of controls on it (for me, anyhow).

[solarbird]

What are the right kind of controls for you? What do you need?

I know what velocity-sensitive means and I want that. I don't know whether I care about weighted, but all my keyboard experience (such as it is) is on physical pianos.

I was planning on buying used, is that a bad idea? I've been trolling Craigslist. ^_^ Like this one guy has:

It is the "Midi Studio" by Miditech. Ran almost 300 new.

He's selling it for $80, it's used but didn't tour. Is this a bad idea?

[solarbird]

Oh, and what's aftertouch do?

[alinsa.livejournal.com]

For me, I wanted at least 8 faders (a.k.a. sliders) and a bunch of pushbutton toggles. Depending on what you're doing these can be a godsend -- you can adjust levels, plugin parameters, etc, without having to touch a computer. Having these things available may or may not make a bit of difference to you.

If you don't have a ton of real piano experience, you probably don't care that much about weighted keys. If you've done a lot of piano work before, unweighted keys just feel completely wrong. If you haven't done a ton of piano work before, weighted keys still feel better (IMO), but you can probably live without and never know the difference.

Aftertouch basically lets you change the pressure on a key after a note is struck. i.e. without aftertouch, you'll hit a key on your velocity sensitive keyboard and generate a value for how hard the note was struck ("I hit C4 at a velocity of 100"), and that's it. Aftertouch sends a series of messages after that initial message as your pressure on the key changes ("I hit C4 at a velocity of 100... and now I'm at 90... and now I'm at 80... and now I'm at 100 again..")

The main thing I've seen aftertouch used for is orchestral instruments. With a piano, volume and attack are linked -- the harder you press, the stronger the attack, the louder the note (and you can't change the volume of a note in the middle of it). But most orchestral instruments don't work that way -- think of a violin. You can have a very soft attack that grows into a very loud note, or a very hard attack that quickly tapers off to little more than a whisper. Aftertouch lets you do that, by sending an initial key velocity to determine the strength of the attack, and then sending aftertouch data to control the volume after that.

(you could strike a key really hard and then take almost all the pressure off of a key to get a strong attack and then drop to a very quiet sustain, for example)

I'm sure buying used MIDI bits is the same as buying anything else used... some stuff has been treated well, some stuff hasn't been. I don't think there's any particular reason *not* to look at used, though.

[quen-elf.livejournal.com]

Aftertouch does very little, or a lot, depending on how your synthesizer is handling it. You can program what it does - at least, old hardware synthesizers let you do that, and I'm sure computer software will too.

The use of aftertouch I've mainly seen is on my family's old Korg M1. (Awesome keyboard, by the way. :) A little long in the tooth now.) Anyhow, mostly aftertouch did basically nothing, but here's two examples:

1) It had a great electric guitar program with a distortion/overdrive effect. You play the key, you get a nice crunchy guitar note. Press it with the aftertouch and it begins to distort... press hard and it SQUEALS. Really great.

2) There were various flute programs and similar (uh... you probably wouldn't need these, I guess) where the aftertouch adjusted the 'breathiness'.

In both cases these basically make it sound more dynamic, natural, and varied. You don't need it for piano sounds, but anything where you can control the sound *after* the note starts? That's how you do it.

I'm a bit surprised to hear that aftertouch is expensive. (Used to be that weighted keys were expensive, they aren't really any more, but aftertouch still is? Oh well.) By the way, if you want a variable-level input control in addition to the initial note presses, without requiring a third hand, you can alternatively get a cheap control pedal and do it with your foot instead.

(Not quite the same, at least in the examples I stated. Maybe I was easily pleased back then, but aftertouch felt *great*. :)

[unexpected-finn.livejournal.com]

If you're planning to replicate piano or harpsichord, weighted keys are useful but not essential (you can fake it in software); for serious organ composition like I do (and should share some of the original stuff with you sometime), the weighted keys are essential, and aftertouch become useful. Well, it's essential too if you are accustomed to mechanical tracker keyboards.

ysmv, of course.

Maria.

[doragoon.livejournal.com]

i don't know very much about this. but i'd look into a keyboard and midi controler as seperate units. you might be able to find something with more of the features you want without having to sacrifice the playability of the keyboard. plus each one could be upgraded independantly as you discover more about what you need and what you can do without.