Oh good, more Hitler rhetoric

[solarbird]

The fundamentalists are bringing out the "gays == nazis" rhetoric again. C.f. this Yes on 8 speaker saying that if "we" don't overturn marriage for queers it'll be like accomodating Hitler and the Nazi party. The Yes on 8 side also just got another $4.5 million in funds in the last two days and is buying $2m in ads a day.

The "No on 8" campaign - the campaign to preserve marriage rights in California - has stated that their site came under DDOS attack earlier this week, preventing donations from being made, but that they have resolved this issue. Donate to the "No on 8" campaign here.

eta: More normal YouTube link here. And the speaker is the spokesperson for Yes on 8, so this isn't some random jackass. It's a specific and highly-placed jackass!

eta2: And at the same rally, they've got the old "they can't reproduce so they have to recruit" language revved back up. For those who don't know: this is 90s shorthand for "faggots will rape your kids and turn them into queers." In the 90s, they'd actually say all those words outright (adding "and give them AIDS" for bonus "kill your children" points) but that plays badly now. All this comes from the key fundamentalist dogma about homosexuality which requires that being GBLT is not in any way innate, but is instead a learned and sinful behaviour. Accordingly, this behaviour must be taught, which leads directly to a small variant on old-school blood libel, wherein adult queers rape children to "turn" them into queers. This is also the source of the no-longer-as-often-repeated "pedophilia is the basis of homosexuality" libel in the fundamentalist community.

So that's what they're talking about here: the longstanding (decades-old) rhetoric that queers want to kill your children by raping them, giving them AIDS, and turning them into queer monsters like themselves. That's what this clip's shorthand means.

Comments

[feyrieprincess.livejournal.com]

Gays were interred in concentration camps by Nazis
I don't understand how fundamentalists advocating persecution of gays can say this. The defining characteristic of a "Nazi" is the persecution of others. Gays do not persecute people. Fundamentalists do. WTF?!?!?

[solarbird]

While I haven't seen it surface in this campaign yet, there is a fundamentalist slander / holocaust revisionist book out there called The Pink Swastika which claims that in reality, the holocaust did happen, but was run, along with the rest of the Nazi party, by queers, and not by Good Normal Germans. There is a less-popular companion book which weaves a revisionist historical fantasy declaring all the worst incidents in Western history to be directly the fault of gay people. Essentially, the authors are trying for a newtype Protocols of the Elders of Zion, only for queers.

The holocaust revisionism book and its author was featured multiple times on Concerned Women for America's radio programme, and was referenced fairly regularly on their website in the past, but seems to have faded from view over the last few years.

[dogemperor.livejournal.com]

Actually--unfortunately--those horrid books are STILL quite popular in "Joel's Army" circles in particular, and the American Family Association seems to be the main promoter of this tripe. (And yes, you are pretty much dead on with describing Scott Lively's general works as "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, only with the word 'Jew' replaced with 'Homosexual'". This is something I, sadly, have very personal experience with; Lively's books were and are actively promoted by the church I am a walkaway from, a particularly notorious deacon/hatemonger/head of state AFA affiliate locally has promoted the books in his various groups (all pretty much run as political fronts of the church I am a walkaway from), and it's largely because of this sort of thing why I will *never* be able to come out to my parents without being at very serious risk of life and limb. :()

[feyrieprincess.livejournal.com]

@ solarbird and dogemperor

That is DEEPLY frightening

[dianthus.livejournal.com]

The vehemence of Yes on 8 is really making me go "wtf is wrong with people?"

[solarbird]

They really, really, really hate us. Yes, really. They hate that we're not illegal. They've said even worse than this for much longer than this, but it's apparently taking Proposition 8 to notice even this watered-down version.

[solarbird]

Examples being the Nazi thing above, that all queers were child-rapists and murderers (standard part of the package in the 90s), that all queers were diseased rampaging rapists, and in more cases than I really like to think about, even in their theology beyond redemption, and actively allies of Satan.

It should tell you how serious this was that when James Dobson (Focus on the Family) talked about gay "conversion" and started in on the "reparative therapy" thing, this was controversial in the fundamentalist community on the basis of being too kind to the irredeemably corrupt. Hell, I just stumbled across a church a few days ago, in fact, that was preaching the cannot-be-saved line, arguing again for the death penalty for homosexuality - tho' they had it phrased differently, talking about it more as a merciful putting-down to protect the "normal society" from the corrupting touch of the faggot.

And I want to stress: they mean this shit. All of it. They always have.

[marzipan-pig.livejournal.com]

"cannot-be-saved"

As someone who was raised by a (sincere) conservative-without-being-Fundamentalist Christian, this is so appalling to me.

I'd like to see more mainstream Christian groups do some combination of speaking out against this stuff and working with the people who can be gotten through to, but maybe that's impossible too.

[solarbird]

I'd like to see more mainstream Christian groups do some combination of speaking out against this stuff
Yeah, I would too, and even spent a fair amount of time trying to get people to do that, but the response pretty universally was that that would be getting into politics and that would make them no better than the fundamentalists, which was a crock of shit, but hey. (At least some of the time it was pretty clear the real answer - since often they were already involved in causes at least as political - is that they also kinda thought queers were pretty icky, or at least not worth their time.)

[marzipan-pig.livejournal.com]

It's too bad the liberal Lutherans can't get into it - they have a whole "OK to be gay as long as you're in a committed relationship" deal that's a little nuts but that's theoretically the same as the stance for straight people. It's possible that the real extremists see mainstream Christians as Just As Bad for 'diluting' the message or something, I don't know.

My dad has stood up for people one-on-one (!!! like, talked back to people in his social group saying homophobic things), which I'd like to think was more effective for being unexpected (more b/c he is sort of shy than b/c of religiosity though). Encouraging people to do that level of resistance might be easier than overt political action but if it's not coming from their own sense of right and wrong to call others out on stuff, it's hard to imagine what WOULD empower them.

[solarbird]

Oh, I found that church again, btw; Faithful Word Baptist. It's small; most of the larger and politically powerful ones are aware this doesn't play anymore, but they used to say the same things as this. The pastor's wife maintains a homeschooling blog and posted about how she hoped someone would blow up a gay-friendly school she'd read about. As you can see from the churches pages on doctrine, they're in the camp that GBLT people cannot even be saved, and must be executed for the good of society:

God has already rejected the sodomites. He gave them over to become the filthy animals they are... God... gave them up. His only solution to the problem of homosexuality was to pour out literal Hellfire and destroy the city as an example of what he thinks about sodomy. ... This is why God instituted the death penalty for Sodomites. He knows that they are predators and should be kept away from society and especially children. ... It is time that preachers and Baptist people take a stand against the Sodomite freaks and turn off the television that tries to shove their perversion down our throat. God help a generation of Christians that does not think that homosexuality is “that bad.” We need a revival of old-fashioned righteous indignation and hatred for sin and perverts.

And that's how the repeal of laws making it illegal to be gay (circa Lawrence v. Texas (2003) in particular) is "judicial tyranny," because it means they can't make queers illegal anymore.

[partywhipple.livejournal.com]

I suck i could only swing 10 right now. Man that 50 minimum first makes ya feel like a chump! :P

[solarbird]

Yeah, I know the feeling. :( But hey, every bit helps.

[partywhipple.livejournal.com]

Yes it does! I haven't heard anything about the prepolls for it. Anyone have any idea how it looks right now?

[solarbird]

Polling on initiatives is notoriously difficult and polls are all over the place on this one. The amalgam is close enough that, well, it'll be close. Nobody really knows.

[partywhipple.livejournal.com]

I'm really surprised at you. Obviously these fundamentals have read the Bible. Obviously they are familiar with the saying "Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone". Since they are ALL casting stones they must ALL be SINLESS. You should be overwhelmed with joy at seeing so many pure, angelic people. People who are spending their time making sure you evil gays don't get health benefits instead of working at a soup kitchen or actually helping people... I mean ARE helping people cause, you know, you being all evil and all.

/very long sarcasm

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

They certainly seem to have missed the bit that says "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

[partywhipple.livejournal.com]

Oh there's going to be some judging all right.

[sarakate.livejournal.com]

Nnngh, some people make it hard to believe in equal rights. Because if the world were just, their hate speech would have deprived them of some.

Thanks for the link. I had some unallocated cash; I handed it over. I hope it helps.

[sarakate.livejournal.com]

I completely believe you as to what the "they can't reproduce" rhetoric means, but I feel compelled to take a moment to note the painful irony of actually using this as a reason to deny reproductive rights. To go straight from "they can't reproduce" to "and therefore they can't be allowed to reproduce" is.... argh. I can't really even wrap my mind around the amount of warped hate it must take to let them make those statements as if the second logically followed the first, and not have brains come exploding out of their ears in a frenzy of rejection.

If there actually is a God as posited in the Bible, the things some people choose to do with His gift of free will must make Him weep.

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

...and not have brains come exploding out of their ears in a frenzy of rejection

Objection! Assumes existence of organs for which no evidence has ever been observed.

[rmd.livejournal.com]

here's some first hand stories about ACTUAL nazis and ACTUAL concentration camps. (one of the few survivors of treblinka, and possibly the only one left alive now)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2008/jan/12/weekend7.weekend2

meanwhile, here are ACTUAL CHRISTIANS, organized by some 700 club associated person, PRAYING TO A GOLDEN CALF FOR MONEY.
http://wonkette.com/403920/jesus-people-pray-that-false-idol-will-save-gods-economy

the irony meter has exploded.