I didn't even think about this (Friday Night Blowout)

[solarbird]

I didn't even think about this until cow pointed it out, but the Democratically-controlled House passed the FISA changes and retroactive immunity not just with a strong majority, but with a veto-proof majority. Awesome.

Man, I can't wait to see Mr. Bush's signing statement. That should be lullertastic. I wonder if he's made an agreement not to make one? I wonder if it's as good as his other promises? Bwah ha ha!

Oh, and as expected, Senator Obama came out against queers gettin' hitched. He still says he wants to repeal DOMA on the grounds that the Feds should recognise state arrangements, which is an improvement over the status quo, but clearly actually supporting equality is still too much to ask. Even to that, though... given the recent rounds of triangulation, you'll forgive my lack of faith in this promise.

Comments

[darkphoenixrisn.livejournal.com]

Obama is a bigot who knows he can count on the queer vote because he's a lesser bigot than McCain.

[king-chiron.livejournal.com]

Actually I doubt Obama is a bigot or is personally (very) opposed to gay marriage, he's just doing the politically expedient thing (i.e, not taking an unpopular stand). An argument could be made that that's actually *worse* that being a true believer who is genuinely opposed to gay marriage, it's certainly more cynical.

[solarbird]

That's the thing, really; what somebody may and may not really believe is completely irrelevant, and what they may and may not actually say is completely irrelevant, as we have lots and lots of history that neither of these particularly have a lot to do with what they actually do. So we look at past performance of the individual and (D) history over the last, hum, 15+ years, and work from that, because nothing else means anything

[mojave-wolf.livejournal.com]

Can't say I'm surprised, even aside from my dislike of Obama and my belief that he's something of a genuine homophobe and not just someone who panders to and hires them to help his campaign -- all the leading Dem candidates (including those I mostly liked) were (stupidly, as I'm near 100% certain supporting gay marriage would not have hurt and might have helped them them--voters tend to like people who stand on principle even when they disagree with them) horrible and pathetic in their gutlessness on gay marriage. (to parse my thoughts on the top three, I think Hillary likes and is supportive of gays but was gutless and pathetic on this issue, Obama would rather be verbally supportive from a distance because he thinks that is the safest political position and he likes the distance anyhow in this case, and probably doesn't care enough to stick his neck out on *any* issue regarding treating gays as full and equal humans, right down to job and housing discrimination, and I never quite figured Edwards out, but I think he's supportive and gutless while being somewhat uncomfortable with).

I really don't understand what the Dems are doing on this -- this is one of those issues where the majority is on the wrong side, but the people opposing gay marriage for whom it is a decisive voting issue *and* would otherwise prefer a democrat are very few, % wise. Of course, Obama's going right after the bigoted fundie vote, so for him the strategy makes more sense than it does for the others.


Also, surprised you aren't picking on *this* statement from Obama, about the FISA bill --

"I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives – and the liberty – of the American people."

(emphasis mine, as I think the semi-caveat deserves mocking laughter)

[king-chiron.livejournal.com]

"...but the people opposing gay marriage for whom it is a decisive voting issue *and* would otherwise prefer a democrat are very few, % wise."

I don't agree with that at all. I think (from my experience living in the south) there are a lot of independents and southern/Midwestern/rural Democrats for whom gay marriage is a very effective wedge issue.

They don't just disagree with it, it fundamentally disgusts them. And they may not vote solely on that issue, but it definitely gets under their skin and makes it easier for them to vote against a candidate in a way that their tax policy or view on off-shore oil production doesn't.

If there's anything this recent primary has demonstrated is that there is a HUGE range of individuals that vote Democratic, some of them very racist, bigoted, homophobic and xenophobic.

Now, I'm not saying the Democrats shouldn't support gay marriage, I'm just saying we're going to pay a price for it. Personally I think we have to chip away at it state-by-state. Eventually momentum will build and at some point, maybe 10 or 15 years down the road, it's something we might be able to attempt on a national level.