WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH IDAHO TODAY?

[solarbird]

Elevated to top level, found by rmd, Idaho's state legislature has a task force actively working to get women out of the workforce and into the home. First tool: making it harder to get divorced, because divorce is the work of Satan. Oh, and daycare is evil, too.

---

Lawmakers look for ways to keep moms at home to strengthen families
Task force blames breakdown of traditional family for social ills

http://www.idahostatesman.com/politics/story/205994.html

Rep. Steven Thayn and his wife, Sherry, raised eight children on their family farm. She stayed home, and they home-schooled several of their children before eventually sending them to local schools.

[...]

That's why, as chairman of the Idaho House of Representatives' Family Task Force, he and others are considering controversial solutions such as repealing no-fault divorce laws and finding ways to encourage mothers to stay home with their children.

[...]

"Divorce is just terrible," Rep. Dick Harwood, R-St. Maries, said. "It's one of Satan's best tools to kill America."

[...]

Thayn does not shy from this view, calling pre-kindergarten education a "free babysitting service" and suggesting that early childhood education, day-care and Head Start may hurt families by keeping mothers away from home.

[...]

Schroeder agreed that no-fault divorce isn't going anywhere, but acknowledged that Thayn and like-minded legislators in the House are likely to again stymie Schroeder's push for day-care and early education legislation.

"That doesn't mean we won't try," Schroeder said.

[More at URL]

Comments

[kathrynt.livejournal.com]

"women want to stay home with their children."

Well, sure they do. You know how Canada accomplishes that? with a year of government sponsored maternity leave. Funny how much better that works than stopping women from being able to leave their husbands.

[(Anonymous)]

Kel'ka arnef? That's just plain wierd -- what were they doing, having a legislative meeting at Hayden Lake?

Yuck. Maybe I do need to have my head examined for continuing to want to cross the Smith and Wesson Line. Things might not be perfect up here, but at least they aren't that over the top.

Just sign me,
uppity woman from Canada who votes with a paper ballot, and knows that it will be counted.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a dyed-in-the-wool Johnny Reb, if you're comfortable up there, stay, at least for a while. Besides, it's not like they'd let you help clean up this mess for a good while.....

Me, I'm gonna stay and fight, unless it gets to the point where there's no point... for one, I'm stubborn, for two, it's my damn mess, and for three, I don't want to have to deal with this idiot's foreign policy.

[angharads-house.livejournal.com]

Likely will stay put, but in our family the burgeoning Culture War is tearing away at our marriage: we comprise Canadians and Americans, as yet unable to come to a resolution about domicile. I'm a Canuck among our lot, who crosses the border frequently. Have to make interesting headspace shifts concerning civil law, depending on where I am on a particular day.

None of the Culture War is simply resolvable by choice of national flag, since Canada is broken in ways America is not, and vice versa. In Alberta, for example, we see much of the same Dominionist rhetoric that one occasionally hears in Idaho, Tennessee, and a few other states. If anything, in Alberta such rhetoric has more political play, since Alberta's had an effectively monocultural far-right provincial legislature since at least the early 70s. In Canada, we also see a concentration of residual powers, in federal/Quebec hands, that would leave any states-rights advocate very unhappy. The federal recognition of Quebec's nationhood is itself a dollop of spice that probably could never be seen Stateside.

In my favoured version of the dream, Cascadia would formally exist as a sovereign nation. You might or might not want all us ungovernable wingnuts out on the lesser islands, though, since we do tend to consume a disproportionate amount of newspaper ink, and we have a rather Dogpatchian attitude about central authority. Also, I rather doubt that anyone much wants Idaho and Alberta as part of Cascadia. The fact that I carry Albertan papers while living on the Big Rock is an artefact of inter-provincial health-care policy, nothing more.

Yeah, I do get to deal with the consequences of the Idiot's foreign policy, working overseas. Rather odd and over-the-top, sometimes...

Apologies offered for any offense caused, by the bye.

[angharads-house.livejournal.com]

Sorry about anonymous comment, was an odd glitch that my machine does, occasionally logging me out. Seriously though, I'm wierded out by this news from Idaho -- is this fellow part of some odd fundy cult or are lots of them like that out there? Never seen anything like that out of a politician's mouth up here, at least not since Les Creditistes finally folded in Quebec.

[solarbird]

LJ in general has this annoying auto-logout thing that's supposed to be a security thing but is instead mostly just an annoyance as it is unpredictable.

[(Anonymous)]

The 100% best way to stop divorce would actually be to ban marriage.

But law makers rarely consider the wisest choice.

[dustin-00.livejournal.com]

The 100% best way to stop divorce would actually be to ban marriage.

But law makers rarely consider the wisest choice.

What the hey?!? I didn't log out!

[solarbird]

LJ'S ON AN AUTO-LOGOUT RAMPAGE!

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

I agree, actually; government has no damn business in the marriage business. You want a religious ceremony, go see a priest(ess). You want a corporation or other legalities, go see a lawyer. Problem solved.

[angharads-house.livejournal.com]

Quite concurred. That seems to be the direction Canada is headed in, vis-a-vis national laws on marriage. Let the churches sanctify as they wish, or don't wish, and leave the state to keep track for taxation purposes only. We're probably within five years of acceptance of plural marriage, on multicultural grounds.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

We're probably within five years of acceptance of plural marriage, on multicultural grounds.

*boggle*

That's going to get *real* interesting....
hmmmmm..... I know somebody out in BC that's gonna be VERY interested in that....

What does it mean, "on multicultural grounds"? Are they going to restrict it to only those with a cultural history of it, or will folks be able to participate de novo?

[angharads-house.livejournal.com]

Recommend set boggle=off.

"Multicultural grounds" are just the judicial cause under which Parliament will act to extend Charter of Rights recognition of plural marriage. Anyone will be able to avail themselves of a marriage licence, and register same, once the current minority government is dissolved. Bloc Quebecois, New Democrats and Liberals all support this, as it is so clearly wrong to discriminate on the basis of marriage customs.

Since we have no national enactments of racial or cultural registration, other than recognition of aboriginal status versus non-status for certain taxation purposes, the State will not be able to sieve out certain requests for marriage licences on grounds of membership in natal cultural tradition or somesuch. To so discriminate would fly in the face of broadly-held Canadian values of fairness and respect (no, I'm not being sarcastic -- these are the sorts of measures which have broad social support with the exception of the looney fringes).

On a personal note, I might mention that our family would also be helped-out in terms of immigration, health-care and taxation status, too. We'd all be down at the Government Agents' office in Courtenay to take out our papers in a right ruddy heartbeat when this finally gets through Parliament.

I hope that I'm making some modicum of sense; I'm a bit deshabilee, in terms of expressive process, yet, this morning. Warm bed and good company will do that.

[tinlail.livejournal.com]

I see you have a problem with free speech of opinion you don't agree with.

[solarbird]

Um... what're you on about now?

Let me make a guess: If you're talking about the deleted comments a couple of posts back, well, as I noted in replies in that post, I didn't delete them. The original poster deleted them. 2) Strictly speaking this is my own damn LJ and I can do whatever the hell I want, as per any other press.

If that's not what you're talking about, then, um... whut?

[tinlail.livejournal.com]

Given that the bill won't pass, and the people who are proposing, know that it won't pass. Apparently the issue you have is with them have the nerve to express that opinion.

[kathrynt.livejournal.com]

Honestly? If someone's trying to get something started in the Legislature, that's not just speech, that's action. This dude can rant on street corners about women staying home all he wants, but if he tries, however futilely, to make law about it, he deserves to get flak for it.

Dara, however, IS simply expressing her opinion. The nerve.

[solarbird]

What're you, bored? I'd drop the line about drowning plants, but you're not Jim, and this isn't xR.

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

It's not an opinion, it's an explicitly expressed desire to take away freedoms. It deserves to be exposed as the danger it is.

And in case you didn't notice, that's one of the rights we have, guaranteed by our governments: the right to political action and to protest others' political actions.

[solarbird]

The strangest part is that other than the derision implied by the question in the subject line, I didn't even express an opinion. It's all statement of fact followed by their words, as quoted by the reporter. Even the Satan part is a legitimate close paraphrase; they're the ones who invoked Satan. So apparently by mentioning them, and quoting them, I'm oppressing them, which is really so very very out to lunch that when it comes back in it's still hung over from its fifteenth martini. Really, it's lost so far down in some decayed, unobservable trollworld that I can only speculate, guessing that perhaps quoting them is supposed to be abusive by being some form of enabling, perhaps some kind of stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself action - but even then, I can't be sure.

[loopback.livejournal.com]

isn't that one of the typical actions you see done by the fundamentalist right wing, though? to claim oppression as soon as any voices are raised, not necessarily even against them, but pointing out the truth behind their rhetoric?

[solarbird]

...sort of. But sort of not. They have long claimed to be oppressed by not being allowed to impose their religious views upon others in law, of course, but that's not quite the same. And they are censorous, but that's not quite they same either. (In particular, I think, because they desperately need an enemy, preferably a moral enemy, and criticism is obviously part of that.) And they are starting to claim oppression when they hear other voices that contradict their religion, such as evolutionary theory, physics, biology, sexuality (particularly sexuality) and so on, which is as close as you get to what you're saying. But that's different to political action, where you don't tend to hear that. Or, at least, I haven't heard it as a major theme.

[firni.livejournal.com]

Free speech is one of Satan's best tools to kill America.

[ellerisse.livejournal.com]

No offense meant to solarbird here, but tinlail, if you are just now getting the idea that there might be a lot of derision of rightist-fundamentalist-shittist nonsense in this journal... well, either you just arrived somehow, or you have been paying no attention whatsoever.

Also, I interpreted the blurb about legislation being stymied to mean that the fundamentalist nutjob in the House seat would be stopping Schroder's attempts to push legislation supporting daycare and early education. Because Thayn et al view these as merely reasons to get the children out of the house so the women can earn money to support the family that they'll use to... get divorces...

The logic pains me.

[starfallz.livejournal.com]

WTF??

[solarbird]

I KNOW!

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

There's a reason Idaho is out in the middle of nowhere. Far away from us!

[firni.livejournal.com]

Idaho has a huge Mormon population. Not sayin' that's what's behind this, I'm just... you know, sayin'.

[westrider.livejournal.com]

Today? There's been something wrong with Idaho for a long long time. but this does cross a line I haven't seen them cross before there, yes.

wat

[blues-kun.livejournal.com]

>It's one of Satan's best tools to kill America
>tools to kill America
>kill America
>kill

lmfao. Yeah, damn those preschools for destroying American families for four hours a day.

JUST TERRIBLE. FAMILY TASK FORCE. WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Also, homeschool is almost always a terrible idea.

[angharads-house.livejournal.com]

"Also, homeschool is almost always a terrible idea."

Yeah, sometimes it is. I've a young friend in Georgia who was homeschooled by her parents, both engineers, who didn't think to teach her any maths beyond the multiplication tables. She's having no end of trouble trying to pick up her maths enough to get herself into college.

At that time, in their part of Georgia at least, there was effectively no home-schooling cirricular supervision provided by the county they lived in.

[blues-kun.livejournal.com]

I know ONE person out of literally dozens of homeschool students... only one... who not only made it into college in the first place, but graduated. The rest of us got screwed, including myself and my three closest friends from childhood. One of us didn't get a GED until he was 25; one begged her parents to send her to public high school so she could get a real education and is now working through her bachelor's. My roommate and I took a proficiency test early and tried to fix it with lots of self-study, eventually entering four-year institutions and not finishing. All of us feel pretty cheated. I knew kids who played video games or played outside all day instead of doing school... for years at a time. And yeah, we're all pretty bad at math and science, too. But we did read an awful lot on our own time. :)

This is partially due to the curriculum... there was no supervision and little accountability required in our state. It was stuff printed by a Christian publisher in Florida and probably half of it was garbage. Partially it's because our parents were terrible teachers.

To be fair, I have heard of homeschooling working out well, but usually not past elementary school. Usually what I hear about is a joke of an education, though, and that's my personal experience with it.

Homeschooling

[mathmuffin.livejournal.com]

My wife and I homeschooled our daughters and they are currently enrolled on college, with grade point averages of 3.4 and 3.6. However, we did not homeschool them all the way up to college; instead, we enrolled them in 5th grade and let them continue through public school. Nevertheless, my younger daughter, who is home for Thanksgiving vacation, just reminded me that they were well ahead of their classmates in math, science, and English during middle school.

Our goals might explain the differences between our experiences and angharads_house and blues_kun's experiences. We started homeschooling our elder daughter because we moved four times during what would have been her first year of school, and we did not want to repeated move her to new schools. It worked so well that we kept it up for her and her sister. Though we are dedicated Christians, we did not homeschool our children to isolate them away from corrupting influences as some Christian homeschoolers do. We homeschooled them so that they could learn as fast and easily as possible. We designed our own curriculum. Our county had two review sessions with us each year about our daughters' educational progress, and they were always satisfied.

For another example, one of my coworkers, a mathematician in his mid twenties, was homeschooled up to college. He makes me feel under-educated, though I am twenty years his elder, because he knows more mathematical skills relevant to our job than I do.

For a third example, last year my wife ran a weekly Dungeons & Dragons game for some homeschooling children at a local game store. Those children were typical preteen Munchkin gamers, neither wiser nor more foolish than gamer preteens from public school.

Re: Homeschooling

[solarbird]

Can you recommend some good quality not-fundamentalist (and even better also not-specifically-religious) homeschooling curriculum and teaching materials? I ask on behalf of friends-of-friends in Oregon who are surrounded by only fundamentalist-run schools and have gone as far as they can do well so far. In math, they're through first quarter calculus, for example, but that's as far as they got in college so can't do much better after that.

I've suggested distance-learning community-college programmes which will hopefully help - they're 70 miles from the nearest community college - but they need all the help they can get.

Re: Homeschooling

[mathmuffin.livejournal.com]

We had made up the curriculum from scratch. Our house was already crammed with books on hundreds of topics. We did pick up books along the lines of What Every Third Grader Needs To Know (http://www.amazon.com/What-Third-Grader-Needs-Revised/dp/0385336268/ref=pd_sim_b_title_1) to doublecheck that we did not overlook some topic. We also purchased workbooks from a local teacher supply store for drill and practice.

We used some books out of the A History of US (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/102-5918954-2665734?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=%22A+History+of+US%22&x=16&y=15) series for history lessons. Since we live on the east coast, history lessons often mean one-day field trips to nearby historic sites, such as Fort McHenry. frostmuffin also used Shakespeare's plays for 4th and 5th grade reading.

I am unsure whether you mean that the homeschooling children have reached first-quarter calculus already or that that is their parents' long-range plans. For beyond calculus, I had used Mathematical Analysis by Tom Apostol for my college Real Analysis class. It was so clear that my dormitory floormates in the more mundane Advanced Calculus class borrowed it for reference. If the students are still working on pre-college mathematics, look at the new books by The Art of Problem Solving Inc. (http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Books/AoPS_B_Texts.php) We hadn't used them ourselves, but I have seen them due to my volunteer work in math education.

One of the best-known formal homeschooling curriculum programs is Calvert School (http://www.calvertschool.org/calvert-school). It started decades ago, before homeschooling became popular, as a curriculum for American children overseas.

Re: Homeschooling

[solarbird]

I don't have much in the way of specifics myself, as this sadly all comes second-hand. Thanks, relayed. ^_^

[stickmaker.livejournal.com]

I thought all that fresh air and sunshine was supposed to clear the mind, not erase it.

[llachglin.livejournal.com]

In my ideal world, we'd reorganize North America along regional lines according to watershed, like this (http://www.cec.org/naatlas/NA-Watersheds.gif). The effect of this is that Idaho (and Eastern Washington and parts of southeastern BC) would become the rural edge of the Columbian region, and be subject to the political leadership of its main city, Portland. You'd basically have a political entity with politics similar to present-day Oregon. These nutcases would still have their say, but they'd be kept in check by the saner elements in the region. The nutcases would still have their desert plateau in parts of Nevada and Utah and smaller chunks of nearby states, but they wouldn't have disproportionate influence outside of that region. Maybe they could form a Deseret Republic and leave us the hell alone, particularly since those of us in Seattle would be in an entirely different region.

[angharads-house.livejournal.com]

Funny to mention the desert nutcases. Much of Alberta's provincial politics is driven by trying to appease the Mormon and Hutterite voters...

Hutterites pretty much keep to themselves, but the Mormons do spend a staggering amount of money on broadcast media, especially around election time.

[arethinn]

"Divorce is just terrible," Rep. Dick Harwood, R-St. Maries, said. "It's one of Satan's best tools to kill America."

That so needs to become a meme. Like "why do you hate freedom".

ONE OF SATAN'S BEST TOOLS TO KILL AMERICA!!!

[zarq.livejournal.com]

I swear, someone needs to take a damned cluebat to Every Single Politician who thinks it's their G-d-Given right to impose their questionable values on the rest of us.

We should make all of them live in abject poverty while they're in office. Let them how the other half lives.

Better yet, a *tolerance* test should be a prerequisite to gaining power.

[alline-mathin.livejournal.com]

Woo, I like that, a tolerance test.

[solarbird]

I don't. Once you have a position requirement for eligibility for office, it's already over.

[mathmuffin.livejournal.com]

At least these Idaho legislators did not set up gay marriage as a bogeyman, as seems to be the current fashion among right-wing politicians. They identified a true threat to American families: divorce. Unfortunately, divorce is more a symptom than the cause of the problems in marriages.

Rep. Steven Thayn did look for causes of divorce to tackle the problem at the root. He said that mothers working outside the home are a major cause. I disagree with him. The Idaho Statesman article (http://www.idahostatesman.com/politics/story/205994.html) has the recommendations of the Idaho Family Task Force in a side box. Those recommendations look pathetic, the work of people who don't really have a good solution. I think this fuss is nothing but a bunch of politicians jumping to conclusions in an attempt to look like they are solving the problem of deteriorating family structure.

[uniquecrash5.livejournal.com]

heh, I posted this to fark.com and it actually got greenlit. My first, I'm so proud.

2007-11-18 () [Politics]: Idaho Republican seeks to make more happy traditional families... by eliminating no-fault divorce. Bonus quote:"Divorce is just terrible. It's one of Satan's best tools to kill America."

[solarbird]

Well done. ^_^

[alline-mathin.livejournal.com]

Just another reason to get the hell out of this country.


On October 23, 2007 the U.S. Government declared War on the American People. By a vote of 404 to 6, the U.S. House of Representatives approved HR 1955: The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007. This act designates every American who acts -- OR PROMOTES ACTION -- against the U.S. Government to be a TERRORIST. Simply put: If you've ever said that George W. Bush should be hanged as a war criminal, you sir, are a Terrorist.

While the news has been unremarkably disinterested since the bill was introduced back in Mid-April of this year, the press has been provided with sound bytes where the lack of funding is quoted repeatedly, along with the intention to merely study the habits of would-be terrorists. Those who oppose such a bill would be assumed to have "something to hide," or considered a sympathizer for the Terrorists, without completely understanding the ramifications.

Up until now the Government has primarily focused on people who were directly connected to terrorist organizations. Those investigated and accused ranged from foreign aide organizations to a university professor in South Florida. Although the majority of cases have ended in mistrial, some speculate the total number of 'Black Listed' Americans to be somewhere in the ballpark of 770,000. That was before the Government considered its own Citizens to be Terrorists.

Once this bill passes through the Senate and is signed into Law by the President, it will no longer be safe to speak out against the Government. Any word spoken across telephone lines, or written and recorded on the Internet, could potentially be scrutinized by the Department of Homeland Security, and lead more innocent victims to secret prisons to be subjected to violent acts of torture.

I urge everyone reading this to contact members of the press, to call or write your local Senators, and beg them to protect your Constitutional Rights as Free Citizens. Our Democracy requires your action BEFORE the next election. The cost of failing to do so could be greater than any of us currently imagine. Help stop the Declaration of War Against the American People before it is too late.

Source: http://critterology.blogspot.com/2007/10/declaration-of-war-vs-people.html

The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

[alline-mathin.livejournal.com]

5-11-03
Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to (sic) media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
omnicenter.org/warpeacecollection/facism.htm#14fascism