let’s talk about the only punishment that matters to politicians

[solarbird]

Accountability has been rare for American politicians my entire life. Oh, sure, if they do illegal things in the wrong way, you might see something happen. You’ll get some corruption charges, and there’s even a decent chance those’ll stick.

But rarely if ever has any of that had anything to do with punishment for abusing their power. Particularly when it comes to foreign policy.

So let’s talk about how you, as an ordinary citizen, actually can try to punish them in a way they care about.

The only meaningful way you punish politicians is to take power away from them.

That’s it. Trump may turn out to be the first meaningful exception ever, and I pray that’s true. But until that’s no longer up in the air, the only meaningful punishment is taking power away.

Conversely, the reward is giving them power.

Punish by taking power; reward by giving power.

Hence, voting.

For you and me, on the street? That’s what we got. If you want to punish a politician, you take power from them. If you want to reward one, you give them power.

It’s very simple, and yet, that’s also where it gets oh so tricky.

There’s a big chunk of the American left still going off on Biden over Israeli actions, with the whole “Genocide Joe” horseshit*, the “no difference” lie – not as bad a lie as “TRUMP WON!!” but still pretty fuckin’ bad for those of us whose lives depend on the outcome of elections – and vowing to withhold their vote and trying to get others to do the same.

So let’s back up a minute and look at the ugly reality on the ground.

Israel is blocking aid all over the place, as everyone knows. Israeli far-right are destroying aid and attacking aid workers, and they’re in Netanyahu’s coalition. It’s bad.

Biden’s pushed back not just verbally but to the point not only of airdrops (I can almost hear the shouts of “MEANINGLESS!!” even as I type this), but in building a pier against Israeli wishes to ship in tons and tons more.

(Cue the shouts of “You mean to land American troops to help the Israelis!” and to pre-empt that, no, and also, fuck off; cue also “bullshit pier broke in a storm, it’s meaningless and already over!” and I note they’re hoping for repairs to be completed in another week, with something like a thousand tons of aid shipped in before it got damaged.)

Do you think Bibi’s government is okay with them doing that that? Seriously? Because they are not okay with the US doing that. That pier existing at all is seen as a violation of Israeli sovereignty even if they’re keeping quiet about it. And some of them were overtly cheering the damage last weekend, hoping it never comes back into operation.

So yeah. They’re mad. And they’re not okay with it.

That’s just aid. Food. Water. Medicine. It’s not even the most meaningful step, in foreign policy terms.

American government public criticism of Israeli tactics has historically been very rare, and by that, I mean, “Israeli forces attacked an American ship and killed American sailors and the response was polite and muted.” (Reagan and Bush I, surprisingly, were exceptions in that “Only Nixon can go to China” way, I suppose.)

Biden, meanwhile, has withheld military equipment (via delay, all he can legally do), has singled out Israeli divisions as ineligible to receive aid due to their actions on the ground (another thing he can legally do to limited degrees, and it’s very new against Israel), has publicly rebuked Israeli actions, has pretty clearly forced what little Netanyahu has begrudgingly allotted for fleeing civilians, and as of last weekend, appeared to be actually getting somewhere pushing that cease fire everyone’s been calling for, all against Bibi’s wishes.

Most of this shit’s new! It really is! These are steps in the right direction.

Yet, I again hear the howls of MEANINGLESS! and NOTHING! But in reality, in terms of diplomatic and foreign affairs dealings with a many-decades key regional ally, this is a lot. It’s a lot as in he’s in real political trouble for even this much.

Biden is sticking out his neck on this. Maybe he has to – I’m sure he’d rather be talking about anything else, honestly. But he’s still doing it.

However, the people who want what he’s doing – and want much, much, much more – are trying to punish him for not already doing that much more.

Now, before we go on, I’ll say this, because it’s important: if his opposition in the upcoming election was someone who would actually do more to stop the war instead of urging the Israelis to do more and worse – including nukes from one particular idiot – this stance would make perfect sense. It would be functional basic politics. It would be smart.

I’ll even go further; if his opposition were merely no worse, it would still make sense. Even if they were slightly worse – but only slightly – it could still make sense, depending upon the situation.

But that’s not where we are. Instead, the reality is that we have an opposition who wants as much more killing as possible, who sends former US ambassadors to write genocidal slogans on bombs to sabotage peace prospects as completely as they can. That’s who we have, and if given power, they will execute on all of it.

Whether you like it or not, in reality, that’s where we are.

And so, in this context, punishing Biden for not doing enough is not smart, and it’s not functional politics.

It is, at best, self-sabotage, because if you punish the politician doing at least some of what you want – by removing them from power – while at the same time you reward the one doing the opposite of what you want – by giving them power – the lesson will not be to do more of what you want, because the power is what they care about.

The lesson will be do less of what you want, or nothing at all.

Or maybe even to decide the opposition was right, and go in with them.

It doesn’t matter what you say about your motives. The hard reality on the ground will be that you punished the ones who leaned your way, and rewarded the ones calling for more killing faster, and you did so in the only way that matters to them: the giving and taking of power.

When a politician takes even the a small step in your direction when their opposition is charging away, do not punish the one leaning towards you, and do not reward the one running away.

Unless, of course, they actually are doing what you really want.

And I gotta tell ya – sometimes, I genuinely wonder.

—
* (this term at this point is an instamute from me, just like “shitlib”)

Posted via Solarbird{y|z|yz}, Collected.

Comments

[mme_n_b]

If US, UN, or even the fucking Ireland landed troops in Gaza to fight Hamas they'd have a right to talk. Punishing Israel for doing the best they can and no more than any country would do in response to a bloody and horrifying murder and kidnapping attack is not "a step in the right direction". I'm voting a straight Democratic ticket this election as in all the previous ones because I want a country in which you can be alive, but can't wait for there to be two sets of politicians to share this wish with me.

[solarbird]

I do not think Bibi is doing "the best he can" in any way whatever. He's corrupt as hell and is in part keeping this war going - in the opinion of many in the Israeli media - to keep out of jail.

The Israeli far right is as much a far-right cesspit as any other far-right movement, and I've been watching in a kind of dread as Netanyahu's government turned Gaza and particularly the West Bank into what amounts to an open-air prison over the last 20 years, taking more and more land and isolating Palestinians into smaller and smaller islands, with the lands between taken over by mostly-far-right Israeli "settlers."

And to preempt anything like, "they voted for Hamas," consider that most of the people in Gaza either were not born yet, or were under the age of five years old the last time there were elections. Consider also that no one voted for the current Hamas "government" which took over in the west bank without elections.

The Israeli government is bombing a nation made mostly of children.

They are bombing hospitals and schools, and they are killing massive numbers of children.

Multiple members of Netanyahu's cabinet have spoken openly about a desire for a "depopulated" Gaza. That's either a call for ethnic cleansing or genocide, and I have to ask:

Where are those people going to go?

So I do not think in any way that Netanyahu is doing "the best he can." I don't think he's done "the best he can" at any point.

I think he wants to shove the Palestinians into the sea. And I credit Biden for holding him back on that.

[mme_n_b]

"I do not think Bibi is doing "the best he can" in any way whatever." True, but irrelevant because he isn't Israel. Just as Trump in Libya is not USA.

"The Israeli far right is as much a far-right cesspit as any other far-right movement"
Also true, also irrelevant, since even the most corrupt government can be working towards good goals if those coincide with the government's interests. Eliminating Hamas as a power is a good goal.

"The Israeli government is bombing a nation made mostly of children"
Hamas, an organization explicitly and credibly dedicated to killing all Jews (and a large proportion of Palestinians, including queers and women) is hiding underneath a nation made mostly of children. More involvement from other countries would help get rid of them without bombing. Too bad no one is willing to put boots on the ground. I am all in favor of Irish army landing in Gaza, but they haven't offered for some reason.

"an open-air prison" Don't use cliched propaganda phrasing if we're going to talk, ok? Use your own words.

"Consider also that no one voted for the current Hamas "government" which took over in the west bank without elections." Yes, those are the murderers no one is helping Israel defend against, thank you for mentioning this.

"They are bombing hospitals and schools, and they are killing massive numbers of children." Yes, hiding fighters and weapons under hospitals and schools is a very bad thing to do. Do you have suggestions on how those can be eliminated?

"The Israeli government is bombing a nation made mostly of children."
Yes, if hospitals are used as army bases and aid is stolen to buy weapons and allow billionaire terrorists to live well outside of the country they took over the average person will live less. If religious fanatics forbid birth control and kill uppity women there will be more births per woman. Both those things will lead to a younger population. Too bad no one did anything to help Gazans suffering under Hamas rule.

"Where are those people going to go?" A desire for something by a few corrupt politicians does not translate into action. Israel had decades to destroy Palestinians and it took a deliberate murderous provocation on an unprecedented scale to get them even this far.

"I think he wants to shove the Palestinians into the sea. " I think you may be confused. "From the river to the sea" is not actually Israel's slogan. But while we're on the subject - there sure are a lot of people voicing that slogan and based on their action I consider it to be a credible program. Now, I am assuming that if you believed that Hamas was aiming to kill all Jews (they are, but I'm assuming you don't believe it) you would not be against bombing them. That being so, you must believe that they want the Jews to go somewhere. Where?

[solarbird]

More involvement from other countries would help get rid of them without bombing. Too bad no one is willing to put boots on the ground.

The current Israeli government would not tolerate what it would see as

"an open-air prison" Don't use cliched propaganda phrasing if we're going to talk, ok? Use your own words.

Amazing how more than one person can look at giant prison walls and come up with this particular analogy, isn't it?

"Consider also that no one voted for the current Hamas "government" which took over in the west bank without elections." Yes, those are the murderers no one is helping Israel defend against, thank you for mentioning this.

Netanyahu's defenders have been using "they voted for Hamas" as justification for killing so indiscriminately. It is a lie that makes this commentary relevant.

"I think he wants to shove the Palestinians into the sea." I think you may be confused.

Do not insult me on my own journal.

[mme_n_b]

So now you know what the Israeli government would and would not tolerate? How impressive. Not impressive enough to make me believe that a common cliche is your original thought, but that's ok, you can keep claiming that if it makes you feel good.

"makes this commentary relevant." And you also know what arguments I would use in advance, even when I don't use them. Super impressive.

Have a nice life. I sincerely wish you the best and hope that your state escapes a mass influx of Palestinians and those who agree with typical Palestinian views on women and queers.

[solarbird]

I was considering whether to ask if you had any thoughts on current Israeli AI-driven target selection methodology, or knowledge about their acceptable collateral deaths ratio (particularly their "target them at home" model and what that means).

And since you clearly find very high death rates amongst children to be acceptable, how many children of the American fundamentalist movement's rank-and-file I should be able to kill given their decades-long existential war of violence, murder, fear, intimidation, and law against me and mine.

But, well, we didn't get there. I'd rather hoped not to, honestly, which is why I hadn't typed any of that yet. I was trying to figure out whether I could deescalate this, and if so, how. I hadn't had time to get there yet, when you replied thusly, and so, do not care.

(I am curious, though. About the children. 10? 15? 20? That's getting into the acceptable-collateral-damage range of the Israeli military under Netanyahu. And I should note, these are numbers members of their armed services have given to journalists. Not ones I made up. So.)

None of this is theoretical to me, you see.

No more so than your clear and hard sweep to spitting contempt.

So be it. Good day.

[solarbird]

(65.4% of Palestinians in Gaza are under the age of 25. From 2006 to now is 18 years. The oldest of the 24-year-olds would've been seven. This is who the Netanyahu government are bombing.)

[mme_n_b]

Yes, that's whom Hamas is using as human shields. Can you link your post discussing this? Or are you ok with rapes, murders, human shields, hostage taking, and other things of the kind as long as it's done with the higher aim of killing a lot of Jews?

[solarbird]

This is psychotic, and you may indeed feel free to go fuck yourself.

[jessie_c]

As in many political situations the choice is not so much between the better candidate and the worse candidate as between the worst and least worse.

[wrog]

Or as Noam Chomsky put it, "If you vote for the lesser evil, what you get is less evil," which, presumably, is what you want

(I have enough trouble with the RW idiots who seem to have forgotten that Civil War 1.0 didn't turn out all that well for them. Do I now need to remind the LW folks about Robespierre and Stalin?)

.

[canyonwalker]

I agree with you on pretty much all points. People who fault Biden and promise to withhold their votes for him for not doing enough to oppose Israel's excesses are making multiple mistakes. Among them, like you have said:

1) Biden is doing more to oppose Israel's actions publicly than any US president since 1948.

2) Is this enough for everybody? I get it, the answer is No. But consider that Biden is president of a country where public opinion is still strongly in favor of Israel-- due in no small part to leaders of the other political party now embracing genocide-like slogans against the Palestinians.

2a) You really think there's still "no difference"? 8 months ago I might have allowed that you were making a rhetorical point by saying that. Now I have to assume anyone who says that is simply an idiot or a deliberate liar.

3) Our presidential election is a zero-sum game. There are effectively only two candidates. To withhold a vote from is to increase the support of the other. Yes, I know a lot of people don't like either one and don't like the system. Tough. It's realpolitik. Frankly it's also real fact. Get over your pie-eyed notions of what perfect would look like and vote for the better/less bad of the two candidates we've got.

4) But do keep speaking up for what you believe is right! One side is listening to you and is changing, slowly. I get it, the slow change is frustrating. Don't let it drive you to vote for the other side-- or withhold your vote from the side willing to listen albeit slowly-- in a fit of pique. That's just shooting yourself and everything you care about in the foot.

[solarbird]

On item 2 in particular, see above, assuming they don't delete their comments. Holy shit.