cable question

[solarbird]

Hey, other performers and engineers and stuff!

Is it better practice to spend more on higher-quality and theoretically longer-lasting cables or are they just gonna break anyway and you’re better off saving money?

(This question brought to you by the annoying crackle in channel 2.)

Mirrored from Crime and the Blog of Evil.

Comments

[firni.livejournal.com]

One vote for good-quality cables over hyeah.

[cubes.livejournal.com]

(channeling husband)

In cases of potential EM or RF interference or cross-talk from adjacent AC power cables, it is advisable to purchase Canare Star Quad cables. They are absolutely dead quiet, supple, easy to work with, and made of high quality, long lasting materials. They are of slightly higher capacitance than Mogami 5802 lab grade cables (a better choice if you are looking for supreme fidelity but slightly more fragile cable). The audio difference above standard store-bought stuff like Beldin is substantial.

ETA: These are cables you build yourself, using Neutrik connectors, silver solder, min. 100W soldering iron, and good technique. The investment in time and money is WELL worth it.

[solarbird]

Mmmm. Thank you. I don't have a 100W soldering iron but I do have good technique. (Tho' in this case the crackle is coming from a bad connector rather than RF. But I've been quite gentle with the cable. So, grf.)

[clemtaur.livejournal.com]

Another vote for investing in quality cables.. and sometimes the Best AND cheapest are the ones you make yourself..

[mdlbear]

I may be in the minority here, but I think that as long as the shielding is good and the wires of sufficiently large diameter (low gauge number) there should be no measurable difference between good and super-expensive. The connectors, and the joints between connectors and cable, are absolutely critical. Get good ones and solder them yourself. Then shrink-wrap a boot onto them so there's no strain on the joints -- that's what does in cheap cables.

[maellenkleth]

Build your own with the best-quality materials, pay really serious attention to continuity of shielding, and use Stabilant to keep the connection interfaces clean and unoxidised.

(from experience doing this stuff, as you know)

[tfabris.livejournal.com]

I have seen cheap cables result in signal noise, yes. In fact, just before Sereniversary, I confiscated some cheap cables from Sunnie that had repeatedly demonstrated a hum when she used them to plug in her violin. After enough gigs and rehearsals having to troubleshoot the hum, I made her get proper ones.

However, I have also seen inexpensive cables that are just great, and mind-bogglingly expensive cables that aren't any better than the inexpensive ones.

There is a lot of snake oil in the cable business. There are a lot of hideously expensive cables that only improve the slenderness of your wallet while doing nothing for your sound.

The problem is you usually can't tell until after you get them home and plug them in.

The good news is that you can tell right away if there is a problem, just by listening. If it sounds fine, and you didn't get taken to the cleaners, you're good.

[solarbird]

Thanks.

[solarbird]

This one was fine for the first year or so; it's been an in-studio workhorse, but hasn't seen any stress to speak of (as far as I know...) It's only in the last few days that it's decided to go all lol crackle on me. So it has a durability issue, and I was wondering whether that specific variation is correlated well to price, or whether I just got unlucky, or what.

(I guess overall so far I've had some pretty good luck with cables; this is the first one to go bad.) D'ya think it's worth it to gank off the old end and put a new one in or is that a fool's errand?

There is a lot of snake oil in the cable business.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of green-marker commentary floating around out there. Blah.

Thanks!

[solarbird]

How do you know what "good ones" are for connectors? I bought some at Westlake Electronics... they seem pretty solid... but...?

[solarbird]

Sure, but above a certain minimum - basically I had a cable that's been perfectly fine for a year or so decide to go all lol crackle on me in the last week. So it has a durability issue. Until now it's been fine, so... how was I to tell? It's got a solid metal end, with a boot, it looks good along its length, it's been one of my workhorses. Now it crackles if you bump it.

I guess I should hack the end off and replace it and see if that helps. But what I was really asking, I think, is, "above a certain minimum obvious quality level, does durability improve with price enough to compensate for the price?"

[solarbird]

"Best quality" is a lollertastic term in cables. You can pay incredibly stupid amounts if you're just trying to judge by price. Mostly it's the durability question - I had a cable that's been perfectly fine for a year or so decide to go all lol crackle on me in the last week. So it has a durability issue. Until now it's been fine, so... how was I to tell? It's got a solid metal end, with a boot, it looks good along its length, it's been one of my workhorses. Now it crackles if you bump it.

What I'm really asking is, "above a certain minimum obvious quality level, does durability improve with price enough to compensate for the price?"

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

That's the opinion I've read before. The only people who can tell the difference between cheap and expensive cables are audiophiles who have been told which one is which before hand (ie. wankers).

[kensaro.livejournal.com]

You want to get the fiberoptic cables with gold-plated connectors.

[tfabris.livejournal.com]

If you've got the time and the skill, then definitely it's worth it to repair it yourself. Assuming you already have the tools, it costs nothing.

[saladofdoom.livejournal.com]

If you have a good cable, putting a new end on it is a good investment, provided the crackle is evident when you wiggle the wire going into one connector. If there isn't an obvious bad end, you are probably wasting your time. Make sure to check the length for marks (door crimps, animal teeth, etc.) and check flexing those bits too before you decide to invest time and effort in the cable.

Here are some mistakes I've made doing that that you should avoid:
1) cut the new end of the cable back far enough.
The strain on the interior wires & shielding on a cable that's reconnected a lot stresses and cracks the wires several inches into the body of the cable. I now chop off 5-8 inches of the cable before stripping a new end.
2) Don't use bargain bin connectors.
The best replacement connectors have a mechanical fastening for all the wires (either a screw, crimp, or a hole to pull the wire through before wrapping around the post. That's hard to find sometimes, but they're the kind I've had the highest success with. The cover should have some kind of strain relief where the wire comes out, either molded plastic or wire spring.
3) do a good stripping job.
Again, don't be stingy with the cable end, strip the outer insulation back so that you have extra signal wire. A little slack in the signal wire inside the connector can make the connector survive things it wouldn't otherwise. If you slip with the knife and cut some of the shielding, clip it off and try again.(use an exacto, not a wire stripper on the outside. Wire stripper is OK on signal wires, but always check that you didn't cut any individual strands. If you did, cut everything back more & try again.
4) insulate the connections inside the connector.
Heatshrink tubing is your friend. It helps keep wires from fraying, and keeps them from making shorts when they do.
5) remember to slip the covers on the wires before wiring your connections.
connector cover, heatshrink tubing, etc. There's nothing more frustrating than doing a really good job of re-building a cable, then realizing you've forgotten to put the cover on the wire first, so you have to cut it off & do it over.

6) wrap the wires to get a good mechanical connection before soldering.
The solder is to hold the wire in place, not hold the wire in the connector.
7) don't leave a cold solder joint, even if it seems to have a good connection.
I don't have to explain this one.
8) crimp the cable in tight, but don't pull the cable tight from the wire joins before crimping.

8) This one's hard, but do it anyway: When the end is all put together and you think you're done, give it a good tug, then check it again. At the very least, plug it into something, then yank it out by the cord.
No matter how careful you are, this will happen, from someone kicking the cord if nothing else. If it's going to come apart, best it happens now, while the soldering iron is still hot, and you have everything out.

[firni.livejournal.com]

Henry says go to Guitar Center, get their advice and then do the exact opposite.

[solarbird]

I do - thanks. I don't have a replacement end but it's not like I need a lot of excuses to go to the electronics store. XD

[solarbird]

This is super useful. Particularly items 1 (never occurred to me) and the second nr. 8 (kind of the opposite of the way I think). Thanks for typing it all out.

[tfabris.livejournal.com]

Frequently, the problem is just a fray in the cord or a broken connection, and new parts aren't needed; just a resoldering.

[maellenkleth]

Hi, of course you're correct in that observation.

When it comes to spending money, I use the engineering 'S-curve'. Look for the item which lies at the nearest to zero second-derivative of the cumulative plot of prices. Not the same as the median or the mean, but the steepest part of the upward S-curve of prices. More often than not, that'll be the best option.

On another note (feel free to delete this high-candour reply once read):
I'm in Vancouver, rushing to catch a plane. Of course the new piece has lots of 'chant', what around here we call 'sung speech'. It's got potential, but I suspect that you are standing too close to the mike. Back up a few inches, it'll improve. You may trust me on this, I have a damaged throat too. :(

See you in November!

Maria-Katriina

[maellenkleth]

Hi, of course you're correct in that observation.

When it comes to spending money, I use the engineering 'S-curve'. Look for the item which lies at the nearest to zero second-derivative of the cumulative plot of prices. Not the same as the median or the mean, but the steepest part of the upward S-curve of prices. More often than not, that'll be the best option.

On another note (feel free to delete this high-candour reply once read):
I'm in Vancouver, rushing to catch a plane. Of course the new piece has lots of 'chant', what around here we call 'sung speech'. It's got potential, but I suspect that you are standing too close to the mike. Back up a few inches, it'll improve. You may trust me on this, I have a damaged throat too. :(

See you in November!

Maria-Katriina

[skydancer.livejournal.com]

One of the best investments you'll make is in a Cable Tester such as this Behringer unit. (http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-CT-100-Cable-Tester-101586675-i1399296.gc) These will help you find and diagnose many cable ills.

Occasionally go through your cables, plug in the two ends and wiggle the cable where it goes into the connector. The "intermittent" lights will latch on when there is a change. One thing to be aware of with the Behringer tester: when wiggling 1/4" cables, you can push the jack itself into a shorted state. This is NOT a cable problem, but it makes it difficult to tell with molded connectors if the cable has a problem or you're just tweaking the tester's jack.

Additionally, wiggle the entire cable (take the coil and--without actually kinking it--squeeze it in your hands) This will point out places where the cable has been damaged by someone stepping on it, or other abuse.

I bought quite inexpensive cables for my rig. For the most part they've worked fine. I've had a couple go bad on me, and upon inspection found that they tended to use too little solder and occasional cold joints. I've been able to simply resolder the connections (properly) and the cables are fine.

Stay away from plastic molded connectors. You want to be able to open the connector to inspect/repair the cable. This is especially true for instrument (1/4") connectors.

One of the things that really messes with cable prices: where it's made. There are quite good cables coming from China for low prices, and these can be as good as much more expensive cables. Of course they can be crap too.

There are bundles of 10 Musician's Friend XLR cables for about $40. If you always have a spare or two with you (and you should no matter what kind of cables you have) these will work fine. They are not the most durable, but I've found they work pretty well. Of course, I'm doing live sound rather than studio recording. YMMV and all that.

A little off topic is the subject of cable snakes. My reel snake is a Chinese import, and I've not had any problems with it--as in there were never any signal problems. However, after a year of use, some of the panel female XLR connectors were getting loose (almost no insertion/removal pressure) and did not have cable latches. I picked up 16 Neutrik panel mount connectors from Have, Inc.</> for about $3 each (after shipping) and spent a day rebuilding the panel. They also have bulk audio cable, in case you wanted to build a bunch of cables yourself. Even after the time and cost of new connectors, my snake cost probably 1/3 to 1/2 less than an equivalent snake.


(http://store.haveinc.com/default.aspx)

[skydancer.livejournal.com]

oops...mistyped the link closure...

[mdlbear]

Been a while since I bought connectors, but having a built-in strain relief of some sort would be a good thing. Also having pins that are easy to solder onto, and preferably have little wings that you can crimp over to hold the wires in place. (Or, especially in the case of XLR connectors, nice deep holes you can stick the wires into.)

[mdlbear]

What he said. Fantastic advice -- thanks!

[clemtaur.livejournal.com]

"Stay away from plastic molded connectors. You want to be able to open the connector to inspect/repair the cable. This is especially true for instrument (1/4") connectors..."

Yes! seconded. Furthermore stay clear of the plastic bodied threaded housings if you can. The crunch when they are stepped on or mashed under amps is ..cause for despair. (especially at 2am just before your band is to finish their second set XP) Chrome is best, I think, as gold plated adds little to an already long life.. Some of the L shaped 1/4 inch mono ends are good if you can get your hands on them..

[solarbird]

Nice tester for only $26! <buy> (Amazon lists it twice, once for $30 and with shipping charges, once for $26 with free shipping, lol. XD )