Dear Lazyweb: shelving is hard.

[solarbird]

So we have this island in the kitchen, which has a stovetop on it. The people who built it were kind of more concerned with having a show kitchen than really cooking, I think; alternatively, they didn't use a lot of pots, and/or their ideas about storage were, well, odd, and I can't figure them out. Regardless, underneath said stovetop is a cabinet which is basically a large open space, except! for the bits taken up by the gas plumbing, stove vent, electrics, and fan ductwork leading out of the house.

We're currently putting our pots and pans there. However, we have far more pots and pans than can fit on the floor of this cabinet, and there's a lot of wasted space. I'm trying to figure out how to put shelving in here so that we can not have all our pots and pans stacked inside of each other, padded by paper towels. (This is kind of annoying.)

Oh, and I didn't mention: you can't use any of the walls for structural support. It has to be supported by the floor only. So it's basically freestanding shelves we're looking for here. YAY

So the space is shaped like this, more or less:

<--9"-->		<--9"-->
^ 7" v	<----18"---->	^ 7" v
^ | 20" | v	^ | 13" | v	^ | 20" | v
	<---------36"--------->

(This may and may not be to scale, depending upon your browser. I'm doing bad things with tables. The measurements should be correct, though.)

This would be looking down at the floor of the space, from above. The doors would be on the bottom of this drawing, along the 36" line. The doors are double-doors, hinged on the outside, swinging out, with a 35" opening.

I want shelves at 6" above the ground, 11" above the ground, 16" above the ground, and then, ideally, a final half-shelf (say, the left half of the above drawing) that's 19" above the ground. That's in a perfect world. This is to give me 6" clearing off the existing cabinet floor, two shelves with 5" of clearance, a third shelf with 3" clearance on one side, and to-cabinet-top on the other, and fourth half-shelf with only 2" or so of access height, but with actual storage clearance up to the top of the cabinet.

Right now, to get what I really want, I think I might have to make a frame out of copper piping - I can't afford the thickness for, say, PVC - and then stretch, say, screening material over it, find some way to anchor that down - any suggestions? - and hope that works. That doesn't really sound fun. I think it meets all the requirements - thin shelving that is freestanding and strong enough to hold pots - but I'm less than thrilled. I'm also considering putting in wood walls on the two 20" sides, sacrificing an inch or so of width, which would let me put in some form of wall-mounted unit. But those would probably have to be wood shelves, which are thick, and I'd prefer to keep the shelves as thin as possible for space-saving reasons.

Does anyone else have better ideas? Particularly with the copper piping frame system thought, does anybody have something better to stretch over the piping? Or any other better shelf answer for that system?

(To save time: do not suggest Storables, The Container Store, California Closets, any of the standard systems at Lowes, Home Depot, or McLendon's, or anything that costs hundreds of dollars. Thanks!)

(ETA: For some reason in some views, the align tag in my cell definitions are being ignored. This is frustrating and I don't know how to fix it. If you're confused by the drawing, look at it from my latest-posts page and it should work. Basically, the sides are 20" and the indent shown on the top is 7", yielding 13" of depth through the middle section. Mmmm, HTML.)

Comments

[dpawtows.livejournal.com]

A way to hold screen down: Drill many small vertical holes through the copper pipe frame. Stretch the screening material over the frame, then shove cotter pins through the screen & the holes. Or drive small screws into the holes thru the screen.
An alternate construction material: Most hardware stores have a bin of angle iron in various shapes & sizes. One could probably assemble a frame out of that. Use nuts&bolts to secure the horizontal beams at the appropriate heights.

[banner.livejournal.com]

I would say to build a free standing shelf unit with wooden decks, and either wooden side walls, or a metal frame. You could probably weld something up and make it to drop the wooden decks into. Then I'd put the whole think on low shelf rails so you could roll it in and out when needed. I'd avoid using a metal screen because of rust issues and bending/sturdiness issues. You could just buy some angle iron (L channel) and use that on the four corners for bracing/frame as well.

I'd build it as a rectangle though, I don't think I'd try to make it the exact same shape as those corners would probably be too deep to be practical given the amount of extra labour.

Another option would be to build a high shelf with hooks on it and just hang everything up, but not many people do that anymore.

[smeehrrr.livejournal.com]

Have you considered hiring some midgets to just stand under there holding your dishes?

[epawtows.livejournal.com]

Angle-iron strikes me as a better choice than copper pipe for something like this.

As for the shelf material ...you've got a lot of old pegboard scraps, but that might not be strong enough. How about plain old plywood? If air needs to circulate, cut holes in it.

[clauclauclaudia]

How's the overhead space in the kitchen? I sometimes like pot&pan hooks on metal grids suspended from the ceiling, but that works best if you can suspend them over an island, so people aren't walking directly under them.

Storing Cooking Pots

[stickmaker.livejournal.com]

On a related note, I don't nest my pots. I put the lids on upside down and stack them. This takes more room, but they don't stick one inside the other and the right lid is always with the pot. The stacks are also more stable, and don't lean or fall over.

[kitchengrrl.livejournal.com]

I share your under-stove storage problems. I think you've got actually MORE space tahn I do, but I'm not sure since I'm not at home with a ruler. Our situation is 2 distinct sides with a half-shelf above each side. This does lead to some nesting, but not so much as to be annoying.

one thing I really like about all the rest of my cabinetry is that we have pull-out shelves. They're custom-made and very thin. They just run on wood, no rails. I could send you pictures if you're interested. The shelves are quite thin, but very sturdy, and I think they would meet your needs very well.

Try stainless..

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not sure how strong a copper-pipe frame would be..another possibiltiy is to search local scrap or military/industrial/commercial surplus places for stainless steel tubing-you may find some old restaurant shelving that will do, or just needs a little modification. The downside to stainless is that it's a *stone bitch * to drill into..just a thought. Scott

[solarbird]

The advantage of copper pipe is that it already has cornering stuff. No drilling, no nuts-and-bolts.

What I really want is high-strength tinkertoy. ^_^

[solarbird]

I'm trying to avoid using a lot of wood because I don't want to sacrifise the vertical space wooden shelving would require.

The hanging pots idea sounds good. I used to hang a bunch of pots at the old house, where we had a wall space for it. I poked about at it some last night; it might! just! work! etc. ^_^

[solarbird]

Hiring? No.

[solarbird]

I actually thought about that when we first moved in; it is an island, after all, and it's reasonably-sized. But it's also nice being open the way it is now. It's a conundrum!

Re: Storing Cooking Pots

[solarbird]

Our pots have the wrong kind of lids for that, which is too bad. Otherwise, that'd be a very good idea.

[solarbird]

What are the shelves themselves made of? And do you mean they slide in grooves in the wood on the side walls? Or something else?

[epawtows.livejournal.com]

I was thinking of the angle-iron that comes with holes already in it.

[kitchengrrl.livejournal.com]

The shelves are made of wood. And yes, they do slide in grooves along the wall. Thank you for interpreting that. :)

I think the guy who redesigned our interior owned stock in wood, especially thin wood panels. It's EVERYWHERE in our house. :)

[backrubbear.livejournal.com]

I was also going to recommend the hanging pots idea. I'd augment it with a box frame on casters that lets you pull it in and out.

[solarbird]

For that idea to work, the bar has to be above the top of the door opening - otherwise there's not enough height. So I could probably engineer something out, but it'd probably be a lot more work than it's worth.