NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

[solarbird]

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

NO. NO NATIONAL WORK CARD. NO NATIONAL ID. NO BIOMETRIC LEGAL-TO-WORK DATABASE. FUCK YOU, SENATE DEMOCRATS. NO.

Also, FUCK you, Arizona, and FUCK you, cowards of the press, and FUCK YOU TOO, Barack Obama, with your whistleblower prosecutions. In fact, make that a double, with jumping in in support of "judicial overreach" and endorsing the Christianist bullshit rhetoric of "liberal activist judges." And FUCK YOU for your and Bush's military commissions, too.

God dammit, all you fuckers better line up so I can kick all your asses.

HEY LIBERALS, ARE THE DEMOCRATS ON YOUR SIDE YET?

Comments

[samildanach.livejournal.com]

Oh, hell.

What's so wrong with an immigration policy of, "Welcome to the US. Here are your resources for finding legal work, housing, education, and medical care, and here's how you pay taxes. We encourage you to become a citizen -- here's the process." ?

Oh -- 'cos if we did that for immigrants, everyone would start demanding it.

[kevin-standlee.livejournal.com]

I know one person personally who would be happy to pay those taxes and pour a lot more resources into the US economy, but right now is taking that money out of the economy because all of the money she's earning as a consultant from US businesses is going out of the country and none of it is coming back.

As far as I can tell, US policy is either "we welcome lots of low-paid serfs" or "we love millionaires," but nothing in between. And woe be unto anyone who actually tries to play by the rules!

[tacky-tramp.livejournal.com]

If we did that, we would have large numbers of people coming to this country. Some of those people would be non-white. This is unacceptable to racists.

[actourdreams.livejournal.com]

HELL FUCKING NO.

[solarbird]

REMEMBER KIDS VOTE DEMOCRAT TO SAVE YOUR CIVIL LIBERTIES HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA damn them all to hell.

[lisa-marli.livejournal.com]

Sorry but I would rather have a Non-forgable Social Security Card (which is all they are talking about), than have my SS# stolen.
You have to show your SS card when you get a job. They need to verify the number to match you with your taxes. You want that, you want to get your retirement benefits.
The I-9, which all employers are required to fill out, must have either the SS Card or your Passport to prove you have the Right to Work in America. That is Already the Law.
But, what happens when Maria Smith buys your SS# from the seller down the street. The IRS comes after you for unpaid taxes and there is all sorts of identity fraud fun to deal with.
YES, that is HAPPENING to lots of people. Deal With It!
A card that can't be Forged, that can only be Used by You is a benefit.
I know, it seems counter intuitive.
We already have the I-9, the Right to Work law is already on the books. You must Prove you are here legally. The fact that it is NOT ENFORCED is another matter. The fact that the Employers Tell the Illegals where to buy those stolen SS#s and other ID cards is something that annoys this bookkeeper no end. I DO know how the EMPLOYERS break the law.
This will actually make it harder for them to do so.
And yes, Immigration Policy SUCKS in this country. I don't have the relationship Kevin has with his friend, but I do enjoy her too and think her exclusion is BAD.
But having a SS card that cannot be forged is not a bad idea. Have you actually looked out how easy it would be to copy your SS card and put another name on it?
Then we get to sort out the rest of the mess and make our immigration policy make sense.

[samildanach.livejournal.com]

There is no such unforgeable card. It's a fantasy invented and promulgated by people who should know better.

A better alternative would be a system that doesn't get so thoroughly broken when social security numbers are stolen.

[triadruid.livejournal.com]

Find one that doesn't involve national databases and/or biometrics, then.

[samildanach.livejournal.com]

Sure. Problems arise when Social Security numbers are stolen because it's used as a de facto national ID number. In combination with your birth date and mailing address, possessing that is sufficient to "prove" identity to lots of official and quasi-official agencies.

One alternative would be to use an independent account number for each of those separate systems. That means more account numbers to keep track of, but in mitigating identity fraud that's a feature.

Biometrics help in certain applications, but trying to combine them with an all-authoritative national identity is a recipe for disaster.

[stickmaker.livejournal.com]

I can see having a uniform format for drivers' licenses; getting those is voluntary. Requiring folks to have an ID to prove they're not a criminal? Far too much "Papers, please." for me. What happened to presumption of innocence? (Yeah, I know, but I'm old fashioned and hoping for a return to rule of law.)

What's really sad is that there *is* a federal ID. It's called a passport. Yet I have heard stories from people who have tried to use those internally as an ID (instead of a driver's license, for example, for someone who doesn't drive but does travel) and were met with blank stares, hostility and even accusations of forgery.

[nojay.livejournal.com]

The problem with passports in the US is that they are not particularly common forms of ID so folks like liquor store clerks, bartenders etc. requiring proof of age are unfamiliar with them, preferring the "traditional" driver's licence or state-issued non-driver ID card. Passports are also physically large items to carry about in daily life compared to the credit-card sized DL and they are difficult and expensive to replace if stolen, lost or damaged beyond use (I'm just back in Britain from Japan where the tourist information service warms visitors to Nara and Miyajima tha the tame deer in those locations will destroy papers such as passports in their attempts to mooch food).

[triadruid.livejournal.com]

Right, because we're totally familiar with the 97 types of driver's license/state ID that have been issued in the last 5-10 years.

I've seen the "sample forged ids". The variety is staggering.

[bradhicks.livejournal.com]

I never mistook Barack Obama for anything other than a center-right candidate, all the way back in the primaries. Over the course of my lifetime, "serious" public opinion has moved so far to the right that a center-right candidate is considered Too Liberal To Live. As I keep reminding people, Dwight Eisenhower, Barry Goldwater, and Richard Nixon would all now be considered too liberal to be nominated for even state-wide office, let alone national office, as a Republican. Ronald Reagan couldn't pass today's Republican Party loyalty test. Hell, in today's world, Eisenhower and Nixon would be considered too liberal to be taken seriously as Democrats.

[mojave-wolf.livejournal.com]

I remember when they were talking about the magnetically readable National ID card as a way to prevent identity theft a few years back and a whole bunch of people showed how easy it was to swipe everything on it from a distance and then suddenly that wasn't being pushed so hard.

Not that this is remotely my main problem w/these things, but it seems to be the best angle to take with the average American. Meanwhile, I'm contemplating moving to Mexico.

Green Party, Justice Party, something. But for all that they are sane and the Republicans are crazy, I think we might be better off w/the openly crazy so the not-evil people can see what is actually happening rather than being lulled ot sleep by sensible sounding rhetoric while it's done.

Two things I left out because it's still morning

[mojave-wolf.livejournal.com]

"moving to Mexico" should have been followed by "to escape our fascist police state."

The "Green Party, Justice Party, something" shoulda been followed up with by "but not Dems".

Also, let me clarify that I think that voting for Republicans as a protest vote is loopy. That encourages the police state shift and makes the idiot dems think they need to move rightward. Which they will quickly do at the slightest provocation. Never assume actual principles for over 90% of them.