Impeach President Bush Now

[solarbird]

Impeach

President

Bush

Now

The part that really says "petulant jackass who doesn't actually give a rat's ass about anything other than power" is the part where he threatens to stop all CIA interrogations of suspects if he doesn't get to torture people. And the "clarity" bullshit has to stop. There's been 50 years of work on understanding, very clearly, what does and does not violate the Geneva conventions on this issue. It's very clear now. The idea that this legalisation of torture effort is some sort of attempt to "clarify" anything is a giant lie. Do not let that abuse of language, history, and American principles stand. It was torture when the Soviets did it; it was torture when the Hussein regime did it; it's torture if we do it. Period.

Comments

[avram]

Hold on. While the Bush administration does say that that al Qaeda fighters aren't covered at all under the Conventions, more than four years ago, the White House declared that Taliban fighters among the Afghan war detainees are covered by the Geneva Conventions. And there are Taliban operatives at Gitmo.

[banner.livejournal.com]

The Taliban members who wore uniforms and followed the rules of war are covered by the Conventions. Those that did not wear uniforms or follow the rules of war are not covered.

However, that has no bearing on their being at gitmo. They're prisoners of war, and until something can be decided on what to do with them (I personally think they should just hold military tribunals and punish the guilty and release the innocent), that is wear they are going to stay.

[avram]

That's pretty impressive. Your very first comment, starting off this whole argument, began "You do realize that the Geneva convention does not apply to anyone in Gitmo, right?".

Now you're admitting that you were wrong, but stating your admission as if it were a correction of the very people who've been pointing out that your were wrong to begin with. You're just shameless.

[banner.livejournal.com]

You are saying that there are people in Gitmo who were uniformed members of the Taliban, who fought following the rules of war. Or at least implied that. If those people are there, then yes the conventions apply to them. Personally I do not believe that any of the people there fit into that classification. If the President decides to extend convention rights to people who do not deserve it, well that's his perogative.

So if you can show me evidence that there are people who deserve convention protections there, I'll agree that they deserve it and admit I was wrong on saying that everyone in Gitmo doesn't deserve those protections. And that's deserve it as per the treaty, not what other people or organizations claim. But by and large I think it's a safe bet that the vast majority of people in Gitmo (over 90 percent) do not fall under the convention at all.

[avram]

First, I'm not syaing it, I telling you that the Bush administration said it. And not just "some" -- in general, Taliban fighters qualify as POWs under the 3rd Convention.

Furthermore, the Geneva Convetions explicitly say that detainees are to be considered POWs until proven otherwise, not that you have to prove that they deserve it to consider them POWs.